This is the transcript of an actual police interview. The names of the children have been changed, but everything else is accurate.
Detective: My name is Janice and I’m a detective, I work with the sheriff’s department. So, I want to get your information – you live with your dad?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: What is your address at home?
Charlie: I don’t know.
Detective: You don’t know? Did you just move there?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Where did you live before that?
Charlie: Parents.
Detective: With your mom?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Do you know that address?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Well where’d you live before that? Do you know any of your addresses?
Charlie: No
Detective: You don’t remember any? How do you spell your first name?
Charlie: Charlie – C-h-a-r-l-i-e.
Detective: What’s your middle name?
Charlie: Paul.
Detective: How do you spell your last name?
Charlie: Finch – F-i-n-c-h.
D: What city do you live in now?
C: Costa Mesa.
D: Do you like it there?
C: yeah, it’s alright.
D: You live with your dad?
C: Yeah.
D: Do you know what your dad’s phone number is?
Phone rings. Detective answers. “What’s up?…Yeah I just wanted to know what your status was…mm hmm…mm mm…mm hmm…yeah I’m talking to Charlie now…ok bye.
Detective: That was my partner. You’re gonna like him. You probably just wanna go home, huh?
Charlie: Do you know where my dad is?
Detective: He’s at his house, we’re gonna call him to come take you home when we’re done talking to you. Um, ok, first of all I know this is embarrassing for you and you probably don’t want to talk about this stuff. This is what I do every single day, ok, this is my job, I talk to kids about, um, people touching them in ways that they’re not supposed to. So, anything you can tell me, it’s not going to shock me or embarrass me or make me think…any way about you…that I wouldn’t ordinarily think. I talk to kids every single day, just like you, cause this happens to a lot of kids. Kids just don’t really talk about it, so, you would never know, but I know it happens a lot. So, um, what did you call him?
Charlie: I call him Dymitri.
Detective: Dymitri…is that his first-is that his middle name?
Charlie: I guess.
Detective: That’s the name he said to call him?
Charlie: Mm-hmm.
Detective: Do you remember when you first met him?
Charlie: About a month and a half ago.
Detective: Ok, and where’d you meet him?
Charlie: At bike jumps.
Detective: And that’s what it’s called, it’s called bike jumps?
Charlie: No, it’s called Sheep Hills.
Detective: Shoot pills?
Charlie: Sheep Hills.
Detective: Ok, and is that a place where you go with your bike, there’s ramps and stuff there?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: And is it like a park or is it like a place that kids made up…?
Charlie: It’s dirt jumps.
Detective: Ok, so it’s a place where a lot of kids go to ride bikes and stuff?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: And were you by yourself or with friends?
Charlie: I was with one of my friends.
Detective: And how did you meet him, what happened?
Charlie: We just saw him riding, and then me and my friend left for a second, and then we came back and we asked him if he wanted to go with us.
Detective: And was he hanging around you guys, and so you started talking to him, or…how did you know?
Charlie: We just saw him watching us, so we started talking to him.
Detective: Ah, he seemed like a pretty nice guy?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: So that’s when, that’s when you first met him? You know what I’m gonna do? I’m gonna have to write a report, probably, later, so in case I have to write a report, I’m just gonna tape record our conversation real quick, ok? No ones gonna hear this but me and you. Cause I won’t remember everything cause I’m tired too. Ok, who was your friend that was with you that day?
Charlie: Devon.
Detective: Do you know what his last name is?
Charlie: Grover.
Detective: Does he go to your school?
Charlie: No.
Detective: How you meet him.
Charlie: He was in front of my house.
Detective: You met him in front of your house? Have you been friends with him for a long time?
Charlie: um, about 3, 4 months.
Detective: So does he live in your neighborhood?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Do you know what street he lives on?
Charlie: Yawns, then says something inaudible.
Detective: Do you know what his phone number is?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Ok. So, that day you met him at the skatepark, you just started talking to him, and then…what then, did you make plans that day to see each other again – to hang out again?
Charlie: No.
Detective: So how’d you guys hook up again after that first time?
Charlie: Um, I saw him again at the bike jumps…a couple days later.
Detective: And then what happened then?
Charlie: We just hung out again.
Detective: At the bike place?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: And then what happened after that?
Charlie: Nothing (inaudible).
Detective: What other place have you gone to with him? Has he ever taken you anyplace else?
Charlie: …
Detective: Have you ever gone to his house?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Have you ever gotten into his car and gone somewhere with him?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: And where has he taken you in his car?
Charlie: To the beach.
Detective: And how many times has he taken you to the beach.
Charlie: Um this would be like my second time. 6:43
Detective: Ok. Do you remember when the first time was?
Charlie: Um, about two months ago.
Detective: Ok, but you said you had only known him for about a month.
Charlie: …
Detective: Do you remember, when you first met him, what time of the year it was? Was it summertime or was it before then…were you still in school?
Charlie: It was summertime.
Detective: Ok, do you remember, was it like the beginning of summer?
Charlie: I think it was like before the middle.
Detective: Ok, so when do you get out of school?
Charlie: Um, June 13.
Detective: Ok, so did you meet him before you got out of school?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Ok, so how long after you got out of school. I know you can’t remember exactly, but what do you think it was?
Charlie: … yawns
Detective: I know you’re tired, sweety, and I appreciate you talking with me. What’s really important is, I need you to tell me the truth about it. Even though it’s embarrassing and you’re not happy about it I need you to tell me the truth about everything, ok
Charlie: Mm-hmm.
Detective: You’re not in any trouble at all, you know that right?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: So you met him after school ended. So that would be more than a month, right?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: So, beside taking you to the beach, where else did he take you? Cause you guys have been friends for like, 6 months now? July, June, August – 4 months maybe?
Charlie: Lightly nods
Detective: Ok, what other places has he taken you?
Charlie: mumbles Nowhere.
Detective: In his car?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Ok, what other places has he taken you?
Charlie: Nowhere.
Detective: To the beach?
Charlie: Yeah. We went to the beach.
Detective: And what beach was it, the same one you were at tonight?
Charlie: No, last time it was Huntington Beach.
Detective: Did you go to Huntington, ok, and what did you guys do there?
Charlie: Um, just swam.
Detective: Was it…do you remember what time…was it in the daytime or in the nighttime?
Charlie: The daytime.
Detective: And did you guys stay together till the nighttime?
Charlie: No, we left, like, 6.
Detective: At night?
Charlie: No not really. It was still kind of bright.
Detective: It was still kind of light out…
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: …When you guys went back? Ok. And you thought…how old did you think he was?
Charlie: 19
Detective: Is that what he told you? What else did he tell you about himself?
Charlie: Nothing.
Detective: Did he tell you where he works?
Charlie: He doesn’t work.
Detective: So where does he get his money?
Charlie: I don’t know.
Detective: Ok, did he tell you if he was married or had a girlfriend or boyfriend?
Charlie: He didn’t have a girlfriend or boyfriend.
Detective: And how do you know that?
Charlie: He told me.
Detective: What kind of relationship did you two have? And you need to be honest with me.
Charlie: Friends.
Detective: Ok, but other stuff has happened too, right?
Charlie: No.
Silence.
Detective: I’m going to talk to him, and he’s going to tell me exactly what happened. And then, it’s going to be different from what you’re telling me right now, isn’t it?
Charlie: mumbles I don’t know.
Detective: How come you don’t want to tell me what’s going on? Are you afraid that he’s going to get in trouble?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Are you embarrassed?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Does…Does…do you consider him like a boyfriend?
Charlie: Mm-mm.
Detective: Does he consider you like a boyfriend?
Charlie: I don’t know.
Detective: Well, has he ever asked you about personal stuff?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Well has he ever tried to do anything to you that you felt uncomfortable with?
Charlie: Mm-mm.
Detective: Are you sure?
Charlie: Mm-hmm.
Detective: Has he ever held your hand?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Are you telling me the truth?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: And why wouldn’t you be telling me the truth?
Charlie: I don’t know.
Detective: H…h..he’s..he has done things with kids a lot of times before. And he makes friends with the kids and then he takes them places and then he does stuff to them, sexual stuff. So I believe that he was doing that stuff with you, or starting to do that stuff with you.
Silence
Detective: Am I right?
Charlie: I don’t know. 11:17
Detective: What do you mean you don’t know? Did he ever talk to you about being his boyfriend, or anything like…did he ever talk to you about sex?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Did he ever take pictures of you?
Charlie: No.
Detective: So if I look on his computer, I’m not going to find any pictures of you?
Charlie: I don’t think so.
Detective: Do you remember him taking any picture of you?
Charlie: Uh uh
Detective: Well, have you ever been naked with him?
Charlie: Yeah, we went to the nude beach.
Detective: When, last time?
Charlie: No, today.
Detective: And what did you do?
Charlie: We just walked around and swam.
Detective: Ok, and somebody said they saw you two holding hands.
Charlie: No. I didn’t hear that.
Detective: Well somebody saw that. That’s why they called the police, because they were worried about you.
Silence
Charlie: We weren’t holding hands. [NOTE: Dymitri says they did hold hands, but it was at Charlie’s initiative.]
Detective: Has he asked…has he asked to do things with you, sexual things with you?
Charlie: No
Detective: Charlie, you need to tell me the truth. You didn’t do anything wrong, and you don’t have any reason to protect him. You know he’s over 30 years old, right? And he’s done terrible things to kids, and he was going to do terrible things to you. More than what he did. He’s not your friend. And if he threatened you, it’s not going to happen. He can’t hurt you.
Silence
Detective: Do you like him, what did you feel about him?
Charlie: He was cool.
Detective: What did he do that was cool?
Charlie: I don’t know.
Detective: Well you know, you know if he’s cool, what did he do that was cool?
Charlie: We just, like, had a lot of things in common and stuff.
Detective: What kind of things did you have in common?
Charlie: Like we both liked to bike jump and we both liked other things and stuff. Like the same music, so I thought he was cool.
Detective: What kind of music does he like?
Charlie: Rock and rap and all that.
Detective: Did he ever talk to you about sexual things?
Charlie: long pause No.
Detective: You sure?
Charlie: Mm-hmm.
Detective: Did you see that magazine in his car? The one about men and other men? [NOTE: Dymitri denies that there was any such magazine in his car. This appears to be made up by the detective.]
Charlie: No.
Detective: Stutters | wh-why-why are you trying to protect him?
Charlie: I’m not.
Detective: Did he tell you that he was going to hurt you or something?
Charlie: No.
Long silence
Detective: Did he ever try to kiss you?
Charlie: Mm-mm.
Detective: Did he try one time to kiss you?
Charlie: I don’t think so.
Detective: Well, “I don’t think so” means…you either know that he tried to kiss you or you know that he didn’t try to kiss you sweety. It’s ok. Are you embarrassed or ashamed or what’s wrong? You don’t wanna talk about it?
Charlie: I remember…he was kinda talking to me about being more than a friend.
Detective: And when was the first time he talked to you about that?
Charlie: Like a couple of weeks ago.
Detective: Ok, and do you remember where you guys were at?
Charlie: We were at Sheep, riding.
Detective: And how did that conversation start?
Charlie: I don’t know.
Detective: Do you remember what he said?
Charlie: He told me that he thought he was bisexual, and if I ever wanted to be more than a friend… [NOTE: Dymitri says Charlie also said he was bisexual and had experimented with a friend his own age.]
Detective: And what did you say?
Charlie: I said no.
Detective: And what did he say?
Charlie: He said “oh.”
Detective: But what kind of things did he try to do with you? Has he ever tried to kiss you when you two were alone?
Charlie: No
Detective: Has he ever felt anywhere on your body? Private parts or anything?
Charlie: Mm-mm.
Detective: Did he ever want you to feel his private parts or anything?
Charlie: No
Detective: Nothing? Has he ever tried to kiss you?
Charlie: No.
Detective: If I were to ask him, what would he tell me?
Charlie: No
Detective: Well why do you think he was hanging around with you?
Charlie: I don’t know.
Detective: Well come on, you’re a smart kid, how old are you?
Charlie: 13.
Detective: 13? So why did you think-I know you’re a smart kid-so why did you think he was hanging around with you?
Charlie: Cause we both like to do the same things.
Detective: Ok, do you know how old he is?
Charlie: I thought he was like 19, but now I know he’s like 32 or something?
Detective: Right. A 32 year old man, even if he likes to do the same things as you, is not going to try to hang around with you just to hang around with you.
Charlie: Mm-hmm.
Detective: So, I believe that he tried to do sexual things to you and for some reason you don’t want to talk about it.
Silence
Detective: And he had stuff in his car that made me think he was going to do stuff with you tonight. | Pause | Did you know that he was going to try to do stuff to you tonight?
Charlie: I don’t know.
Detective: Did he tell you not to tell anybody about what was going on with you guys.
Charlie: No
Detective: Are you afraid that he’s going to get in trouble?
Charlie: No
Detective: Do you care if he gets in trouble or not?
Charlie: inaudible 16:46
Detective: Because why?
Charlie: Because he likes me.
Detective: He liked you about a lot of stuff.
Charlie: Mm-hmm.
Detective: So, when he told you that he was bisexual, what did he ask you?
Charlie: Like “would you ever think about me as more than a friend?” And I said no.
Detective: And then what did he say?
Charlie: He said “aw ok”
Detective: He just didn’t…it hard for me to believe that he just stopped and didn’t talk to you about anything else after that. Do you know what “pursue” means? Did he keep asking you about it like other times?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: What other times did he ask you about it?
Charlie: I can’t remember, but I know it was like two or three more times.
Detective: What kind of things would he say, would he get more like…um, would he ask like, um, like more about it, more about it, do you know what I mean?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: What kind of things was he asking you?
Charlie: He just kept asking “would you ever think about me more than a friend?” And I just kept saying no.
Detective: And so, he talked to you about sexual stuff, right?
Charlie: Not really.
Detective: Well sort of?
Silence
Charlie: I can’t remember anything.
Detective: Did he ever ask if he could see you naked?
Charlie: No
Detective: Well how’d you guys end up naked tonight?
Charlie: We went to the nude beach. I didn’t really get naked, he did. [NOTE: Dymitri says Charlie was naked much of the time they were at the beach.]
Detective: Well what were you wearing?
Charlie: My boxers.
Detective: So he was naked?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Did you think that was kind of strange?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Where did you guys undress?
Charlie: Down there, at the beach.
Detective: Did he tell you where he was taking you before you got there?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: And what did he tell you?
Charlie: Um, we kinda planned to go to the beach, but I didn’t know it was going to be the nude beach until today.
Detective: Mm hmm.
Chailie: Like earlier today.
Detective: Mm hmm. And then what did he tell you about the nude beach?
Charlie: He just said, a lotta people go there, and just, hang out.
Detective: And what did you tell him, were you like “ok I’ll just do it?”
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Did you tell him anything?
Charlie: I told him I wasn’t going to get naked. I had my boxers.
Detective: Well somebody saw you naked. If I showed you a video tape of you naked with him walking down the beach, would you be surprised?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Do you think that you’re going to get in trouble for being naked?
Charlie: No. I don’t think so.
Detective: You’re not going to get in trouble for being naked. But you were naked, weren’t you?
Charlie: Yeah. Sometimes. But sometimes I felt kind of awkward so I put my boxers on.
Detective: And there was one point when you were naked and he was naked, right?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: And was also some point when he wanted to do things to you right?
Silence
Detective: Sweety, you need to tell me the truth. I don’t if it’s because you’re embarrassed? No one’s going to find out about this, it’s between you and me, but I need to know everything that happened, and I know there is more that happened than you’re telling me. I know it did. This is what I do everyday, I’ve been doing this for 20 years – longer than you’ve been alive, and I know when people aren’t telling me the truth, and you’re not telling me the truth. And I don’t know if it’s because you’re embarrassed, because you don’t want to get him in trouble, because you don’t want your dad to know. Is it any of those?
Charlie: Mumbles I’m a little embarrassed.
Detective: But you know it’s not your fault. Your life is like this long | spreads her arms | and this is just *this much of your life. And tomorrow you don’t have to think about it and you never have to think about it again, but tonight I need you to tell me the truth about it, all of it.
Charlie: Ok.
Detective: Ok? I know it’s hard, sweety, and I appreciate you talking to me. I know you’re tired, I am too. Ok, so, what kind of sexual things did he do to you, or try to do to you?
Charlie: Um, a couple times he tried to reach down there. 20:48
Detective: And he rubbed it?
Charlie: He tried to.
Detective: Ok, and if you didn’t stop him, it’s not your fault. It doesn’t mean that you’re gay, it doesn’t mean that you’re not gay, it doesn’t mean anything. Ok, when an adult does something to a child, it doesn’t mean anything about you at all. Ok? It just means what he did. And if you think that people are going to think that you’re gay, no one’s going to think that, no one’s going to even know about this unless you tell them. So when an adult does something like this to a child, it doesn’t mean they’re gay, is that what you’re afraid of?
Charlie: No, not really.
Detective: So how many times did he rub your penis?
Charlie: No, he just tried to…reach down there.
Detective: Ok, over your pants, or did he actually touch your penis?
Charlie: No, over my pants.
Detective: Ok, and where was that, was that in his car?
Charlie: No, that was when we were walking.
Detective: Ok, but he’s done this before, before today, right?
Charlie: Yeah
Detective: Ok, do you remember the first time he did anything like that, when you thought, “Oh my god, this is going to be more than I thought it is”? Do you remember the first time that happened?
Charlie: Like two months ago.
Detective: Like two months ago? Do you remember where you were?
Charlie: Uh, I think we were riding on the streets.
Detective: With your bikes?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Just you and him?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: And where did he take you?
Charlie: Um, we usually rode to like…we rode…there’s this big old hill coming from Costa Mesa to the Huntington Beach, and there’s this shopping center right there so we went and got a donut. Then we went to Sheep Hill. And then, he asked me.
Detective: What did he ask you?
Charlie: Stutters | if I would think of him more than a friend.
Detective: Mm hmm. When was the first time that he touched your…your…what do you call your penis?
Charlie: My penis?
Detective: Your penis?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Ok, everybody has different words for it. Um, when was the first time that he touched your penis.
Charlie: Um, about a month ago. 23:18
Detective: Ok, do you remember where you were when you did it?
Charlie: Um…we were at Sheep Hill.
Detective: Ok, there weren’t, um, people around?
Charlie: Uh, no.
Detective: Is there bathrooms at Sheep Park?
Charlie: No. It’s just like a little, it’s like dirt, just a big desert. And just people go jumps.
Detective: Well, where was he when he touched your penis the first time?
Charlie: Um, I was sitting down.
Detective: And what were you sitting on?
Charlie: A log.
Detective: And he was sitting next to you?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: And what happened?
Charlie: He just grabbed it real quick.
Detective: And you were obviously surprised, right?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: How many times do you think he touched your penis over your pants?
Charlie: Like 3. 3 or 4.
Detective: Ok, and I know there’s been more, ok. It’s ok. I’m not going to tell anybody what we’re talking about. I’m going to tell your dad that some things happened to you, I’m not going to tell him details about what happened – I’m going to let you talk to him about that. Everything we say here is about us, and I’m not going to tell anyone unless I think you’re in some kind of danger and I have to tell someone. Ok, and how many times did he have you rub his penis?
Charlie: None.
Detective: Did he ask you to do that?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: What did he say to you?
Charlie: He said Charlie would you touch my penis, and I was like “no.”
Detective: Did he ever take your hand and try to do it or anything?
Charlie: No
Detective: Ok, how many times has he touched your penis inside of your pants?
Charlie: Never
Detective: Ok, and if he said he did, he would be a liar?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Really?
Charlie: Mm-hmm.
Detective: Ok, how many times has he put his mouth on your penis?
Charlie: None.
Detective: And if he said that he did do that he would be a lair?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Did he ask you to put your mouth on his penis?
Charlie: No
Detective: Nothing
Charlie: No
Detective: Are you sure?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Are you telling me the truth?
Charlie: Hm mmm.
Detective: Ok, I’ve been doing this for a long, long time, and I know that it happened more than that, I know more stuff happened then that. Charlie, more happened than that, right?
Charlie: No.
Detective: How come you don’t want to tell me what happened? You’re telling me some of it but you’re not telling me all of it.
Charlie: That is all of it. 25:45
Detective: Mostly, but I need to know the rest of it. Did you know he was going to try to do things to you tonight?
Charlie: No.
Detective: You didn’t think he was going to try to do things to you tonight?
Charlie: Yeah probably. But I didn’t know until he said we were like camping.
Detective: Ok, but what did he say to you about sex stuff?
Charlie: long pause, then quietly | I can’t remember.
Detective: Did he say he was going to do stuff to you tonight?
Charlie: No, he didn’t tell me.
Detective: What made you think he was going to try to do stuff tonight?
Charlie: Because he’s done stuff in the past.
Detective: What kind of stuff?
Charlie: Like try to touch me and stuff.
Detective: Has he ever kissed you on the mouth?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Has he ever once kissed you on the mouth?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Has he ever tried to kiss you on the mouth?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Has he asked you to kiss him?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Ok, what other stuff has he done to you? He’s touched your penis inside of your pants, or with your pants off. He didn’t touch your penis tonight? When you were naked with him on the beach?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Did he try to touch you?
Charlie: Yeah, he tried.
Detective: And what happened?
Charlie: I jumped.
Detective: And what did he say?
Charlie: Nothing. He just kept walking.
Detective: Did he tell you that it was ok to do that?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Did he tell you not to tell anybody about what was going on?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: What did he tell you?
Charlie: Just not to tell anybody.
Detective: Did he tell you why?
Charlie: Mm-mm.
Detective: Did he threaten you at all?
Charlie: No. He just told me not to tell anybody.
Detective: But did he tell you why not to tell anybody?
Charlie: No.
Detective: So what do you think about…what kind of relationship did you think he wanted to have with you?
Charlie: Inaudible boyfriend.
Detective: Did he tell you that?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: What did he say to you?
Charlie: He said do you want to be my boyfriend?
Detective: Did he ask you that tonight?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Today?
Charlie: No, not today.
Detective: When was the last time he asked you that?
Charlie: Like, two days ago.
Detective: Where were you at? Do you remember?
Charlie: We were at my front yard, fixing my bike.
Detective: What did he say to you?
Charlie: He just wanted to be my boyfriend and I just kept saying no.
Detective: Do you want to still hang around with him?
Charlie: No.
Detective: A little bit maybe?
Charlie: No, not really.
Detective: Why not?
Charlie: Because he lied.
Detective: About what?
Charlie: About his age. And he’s tried to touch me and I don’t…want that.
Detective: Did he ever try to put his mouth on your penis?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Are you sure?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Did he ever ask if he could…suck on your penis?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: What did you say?
Charlie: I said no.
Detective: When did he ask you?…Sweety you’re not, you’re not telling me the truth, because I’m asking you a question and you’re saying that we didn’t do anything else, but then when I ask you a specific question you say yes. So I know that you’re not telling me the truth, and can you just tell me why you’re not telling me the truth, is it because you’re embarrassed? Or because you don’t want him to get in trouble?
Charlie: …
Detective: Because you’re not telling me the whole truth are you?
Charlie: …
Detective: Are you? I need you to tell me everything that happened with him even if it’s embarrassing or not. I can take you to a doctor and they can look at you and tell me everything that’s happened with him.
Charlie: Ok.
Detective: Ok? So, it’s important that he doesn’t do this to any more kids. Or doesn’t do this to you again. Ok? So you need to tell me everything that’s happened. Did more happen then what we talked about?
Charlie: Nothings happened, but he’s asked.
Detective: What kind of things has he asked?
Charlie: Like if I wanted to have sex with him.
Detective: He’s asked you if you wanted to have sex with him?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Ok, did he ask you that tonight?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Ok, did he ask if he could do anything to your butt, or anything?
Charlie: No, the only thing when that came up is the sex part.
Detective: Ok, well what did he say? Tell me the conversation?
Charlie: Like, we were just talking and then he said “Charlie would you want to have sex with me?” and I was like “no,” and he was like “aw, I was kinda hoping.”
Detective: That’s what he said?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Ok, did he ever take out his penis when you were with him? Like in the car, or riding the bike, or anything like that?
Charlie: No.
Detective: He never did?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Did he ever take your hand and try to put your hand on his penis?
Charlie: No.
Detective: So what other things did he do besides try to touch…he actually touched your penis over your pants, right?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: And you said he did that how many times?
Charlie: Like three.
Detective: Like three times?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Ok, and what other things did he do? Did he ever touch your butt?
Charlie: No…yeah he’s tried to smack it a couple of times.
Detective: Did he put his hand on it and rub it or anything?
Charlie: No, he just goes like that | makes a smacking motion.
Detective: And how many times has he done that?
Charlie: Like 5?
Detective: He’s smacked your butt like five times?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective writes something down
Detective: Did he ever try to kiss you?
Charlie: pause | he tried to like come close to me…I didn’t know what he was doing.
Detective: What do you think? That he was trying to kiss you?
Charlie: Yeah
Detective: Charlie why aren’t you telling me everything? I know more than that happened? If you don’t want to tell me that’s fine but tell me why you don’t want to tell me.
Charlie: I am telling you.
Detective: But you’re not telling me everything.
Charlie: Mm-hmm.
Detective: Did other sexual stuff happen?
Charlie: Nothing’s happened, but he’s, like, asked.
Detective: And he’s like tried to do things?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: What did he try to do, I want to know everything he’s tried to do to you Charlie.
Charlie: He’s just always trying to touch me.
D; Down there?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Does he ever touch your nipples?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Does he ever put his hand inside your pants and tried to touch you like that?
Charlie: He’s tried but I didn’t let him.
Detective: And where were you when that happened?
Charlie: We were sitting down at | inaudible | park.
Detective: Ok, and what did he try to do, tell me exactly what happened.
Charlie: He like went real fast and tried to stick his hand down my pants.
Detective: Did he touch your pp for a minute?
Charlie: Yeah for like two seconds, he was like | makes a reaching motion | and I just pulled his hand out.
Detective: Ok, are you embarrassed because…um, why are you embarrassed? Are you embarrassed because you think you shouldn’t have let him do that?
Charlie: Mm hmm.
Detective: Is that why you’re embarrassed? Ok. It’s not your fault though. I can’t, I can’t make this right until I know exactly what happened. Ok? Sometimes if, sometimes when you’re your age you’re going through this thing called puberty where you’re growing, you’re growing up into a man. Sometimes if someone touches you, it doesn’t matter who they are. If someone touches you, it’s gonna feel good, cause they’re touching you in…they’re touching you in a way that feels good. It’s your body…you don’t have any control over how your body feels, ok? So, you shouldn’t be embarrassed because it felt good or you liked it or you let him do it, do you understand what I’m saying?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Is that why you feel kinda embarrassed or that you don’t want to talk about it?
Charlie: Um, kind of. But I didn’t let him do it.
Detective: Ok, well.
Charlie: Really.
Detective: Ok, well…did he…Charlie I need you to tell me the truth, ok. Cause when you say “really” and then you give me a little piece of what happened, it means that more happened. And I need you to tell me the truth about…no matter how embarrassing it is, ok? I need you to tell me the truth about everything, ok? How many times did he, did he, do you know, what do you call it when, like masturbate or jack you off, or, what do you guys call it?
Charlie: I call it masturbating.
Detective: Ok, how many times did he masturbate your penis?
Charlie: None.
Detective: Ok, how many times did he start to masturbate your penis?
Charlie: Like once or twice. [NOTE: Dymitri denies having mastubated him, but says that Charlie mastubated himself while they were lying underneath a blanket that night at the beach.]
Detective: OK, so he actually had his hand on your penis and he was rubbing it?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Ok.
Charlie: But then I smacked it off.
Detective: Ok, you know what sweety? It’s ok, that, you didn’t…that…he’s a big man, ok, and you’re growing up, you’re gonna be a big man, but right now you’re still a boy.
Charlie: Mm hm.
Detective: So it’s not your fault, nobody expects you to smack him off or tell him not to do that. Ok? Big people are supposed to be taking care of kids, not taking advantage of them sexually, ok?
Charlie: Mm hm.
Detective: So, he did jack – he did jack you off?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Ok, do you know how many times he did that?
Charlie: Um, like two.
Detective: Ok, do you remember where you were when it happened?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Were you, do you remember where you were, were you, did he ever jack you off when you were in his car?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Ok, do you remember where you were when it happened?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Ok, did he ever have you jack him off?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Did he ever have you jack him off just one time?
Charlie: Mm mm.
Detective: Did he ever ask you to jack him off?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Ok, did he ever put your hand on his penis?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Ok, how many times did that happen, really.
Charlie: Like…he tries to do it like all the time.
Detective: Ok, and what does he do?
Charlie: Um, he just like grabs my hand and he’s like | gestures with his hand.
Detective: And he what?
Charlie: He tries to put it on his penis.
Detective: Inside of his pants?
Charlie: No, just on them.
Detective: Ok, and what does he do with your hand, like he grabs your hand and does he rub it, or does he put it there, or what does he do?
Charlie: He like tries to rub it.
Detective: Tries to make you rub it?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Ok, did he ever try to put his…anything into your bottom?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Did he ever try?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Did he ever put it in there even this much, even try to put it in there?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Did he ever ask you if he could put anything into your bottom?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: And what did he say?
Charlie: Huh?
Detective: What did he say?
Charlie: He was like hey Charlie, do you want to have sex and this and that, and I’m like “no.”
Detective: Ok, how many times has he put his mouth on your penis?
Charlie: None, but he’s tried like two times.
Detective: Ok, so he actually put, did he actually put your penis into his mouth? For a little while?
Charlie: Yeah for like a second. But he just went, kinda went like that | makes a downward motion with his head.
Detective: Ok, so he, so, so he’s rubbed your penis. And he’s also put your penis in his mouth?
Charlie: silence
Detective: Is that what I just said?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Ok, how many times has he put your penis, your penis in his mouth?
Charlie: Like twice.
Detective: Ok, do you remember where you are, where you were at when that happened?
Charlie: long pause | No.
Detective: long pause | Ok, and how many times did he, did you put your mouth on his penis?
Charlie: None.
Detective: Are you sure?
Charlie: Yeah, I’m positive.
Detective: Did he ask you to do that?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: And you told him no.
Charlie: Yeah
Detective: Ok, have you ever slept with him anywhere? Did you guys ever go to a hotel or a motel or anyplace?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Ok, has he ever taken any pictures of you, naked or anything?
Charlie: Just at the beach.
Detective: Tonight?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Ok, did he take pictures of you naked?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Ok, did he tell you what he was doing that for?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Ok, did he show you pictures of other people naked?
Charlie: mm-mm.
Detective: Ever? Did he ever show you magazines of anybody naked or on the computer?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Did you ever go on the computer with him?
Charlie: Yeah but we only go on myspace. 5:04
Detective: Ok, does he have a myspace account?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Does, so he’s never showed, because he had a magazine in his car tonight, you know, that nasty magazine?
Charlie: Which one?
Detective: Well, does he have a lot of magazines in his car, nasty magazines?
Charlie: There’s magazines in his car but not nasty ones.
Detective: There…magazines of like somebody sucking someone else off, or something like that. Did you see that one? [NOTE: Dymitri admits he had a book about oral sex in his backpack, but he did not show it to the boy. He says he had nothing with illustrations and no magazines.]
Charlie: No.
Detective: Has he shown you pictures?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Never shown you pictures?
Charlie: Mm mm.
Detective: Ok, do you know why he was taking naked pictures of you?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Do you remember how many pictures he took?
Charlie: Like one.
Detective: What did he have you do in the pictures?
Charlie: Nothing, I was just walking and he took it.
Detective: Did he have you stop and pose or anything?
Charlie: Mm mm.
Detective: Cause I’m gonna look at the camera.
Charlie: Mm hmm.
Detective: So I’m gonna know if there’s more than one.
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Is there gonna be more than one?
Charlie: I’m not sure.
Detective: Did he, did he have you pose for any of the pictures?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Did he ever have you stop and put like your hand on your penis, or on your hips, or tell you like how to stand or anything for the pictures?
Charlie: No, like I turned around and looked at him and then he took a picture.
Detective: Did he tell you “I’m gonna take a picture and have you stand right there, and you know how you pose for a picture?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Nothing like that?
Charlie: Mm mm.
Detective: Did he have you taking any pictures of him?
Charlie: no, he took pictures of himself.
Detective: Tonight he did?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: How did he do that?
Charlie: I don’t know, he just kinda went | makes the gesture of taking a picture
Detective: Took pictures of what?
Charlie: Himself.
Detective: Like this, like turn it around like this? | makes the gesture of taking a selfie
Charlie: No, it was his penis.
Detective: ok, do you know why he was doing that?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Ok, did more things happen then what you’re telling me, and you just don’t want to tell me cause you’re embarrassed?
Charlie: Mm mm.
Detective: Cause when we first started talking, Charlie, you said that nothing happened, and now I know he’s jacked you off, he’s sucked on your penis, he’s tried to have you suck on his penis…
Charlie: Mm hmm.
Detective: …and he’s asked you to have sex with him. What other things, did he ever stick his penis in your butt, even just a little bit?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Are you sure?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Did he try to do that?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Did he try to do that tonight?
Charlie: No
Detective: You sure?
Charlie: Yeah, he…
Detective: What were you going to say?
Charlie: Yeah, he only asked about it.
Detective: tonight?
Charlie: No, a couple of times.
Detective: And what did he say?
Charlie: He’s just like “Charlie, do you wanna have sex with me?”
Detective: Well did he tell you that, like did he try to talk you into it, did he say it won’t hurt, or anything like that?
Charlie: No, he’s just like “do you wanna have sex,” and I was just like, “no.”
Detective: pause | Ok, how do you feel about everything that’s going on?
Charlie: barely audible | Weird
Detective: not hearing | what do you, what do you feel, tell me.
Charlie: It feels weird and awkward and all that.
Detective: Why does it feel weird?
Charlie: Huh?
Detective: Why does it feel weird?
Charlie: I don’t know.
Detective: Did you ever tell anybody that this stuff was going on?
Charlie: No.
Detective: long pause | Well you just, kinda thought he was just a cool guy, right?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Did you wanna keep hanging out with him?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Because you thought he was a cool guy? So when he’d do these stuff to you, you kinda, what? Just let him do it because…
Charlie: No, I didn’t really try to let him do it
Detective: Mm hmm.
Charlie: He just did it.
Detective: Did he ever force you to do anything?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Did he ever say “you better do this” or anything like that?
Charlie: No.
Detective: He ever forced anything on you?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Ok, did he ever ask you to have sex with anybody else?
Charlie: Mm mm.
Detective: No?
Charlie: Mm mm. Pause | He’s asked me if I’d had sex with anybody else.
Detective: Mm hmm.
Charlie: And I said no.
Detective: Did he tell you that it would hurt, or that it would hurt, anything like that, about having sex with him?
Charlie: No. 8:32
Detective: Did you guys have, did he have a plan to have sex with you tonight?
Cell phone vibrates
Charlie: I don’t know.
Detective: He didn’t say anything?
Charlie: No.
Detective answers phone
She puts phone away
Detective: To Charlie | He had pills, what kind of pills did he have in his car? [Dymitri denies having any kind of drugs in his car or using them.]
Charlie: I didn’t see any pills. 9:25
Detective: Did he ever give you, do you know what ecstasy is?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Did he ever give you any pills or any weed or anything?
Charlie: No.
Detective: It’s ok if you did, if you smoked weed with him or anything, you’re not going to get into any trouble, I just need to know.
Charlie: No.
Detective: Did he ever offer you anything?
Charlie: No.
Detective: He never offered you any pills or weed or anything?
Charlie: Mm mm.
Detective: What about alcohol?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: What happened?
Charlie: Um, he bought Smirnoff.
Detective: When?
Charlie: Earlier today.
Detective: And what did he tell you?
Charlie: He wanted me to drink some, and I said no. [Dymitri says that buying the alcohol was Charlie’s idea, and that he did so reluctantly.]
Detective: Did you drink any?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Did he pour it in a cup for you or anything?
Charlie: No.
Detective: What did he do?
Charlie: He drunk it out of the bottle.
Detective: Oh, and he handed it to you?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Did you take, did you even take a sip at all?
Charlie: I acted like it. I like put it on my lip | makes drinking motion
Detective: But you didn’t drink any?
Charlie: No
Detective: Did he, did he um, did he tell you why he wanted you to drink that?
Charlie: Mm mm.
Detective: No?
Charlie: He just wanted me to have some.
Detective: What time of the day was that, when he did that?
Charlie: 3.
Detective: Ok. And then why were you driving his car?
Charlie: I don’t know, he was just showing me…a quick little lesson about how to do it.
Detective: Have you driven his car – it’s ok, you’re not going to get in trouble for it – have you driven his car before?
Charlie: No, that was the first time.
Detective: And who thought about that, who thought about doing that?
Charlie: He did.
Detective: Ok, do you know, were you supposed to, you were going camping with him tonight, right?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: So, did you bring a sleeping bag?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: You brought one?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Ok, cause there’s only one sleeping bag in his car.
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: You guys were gonna share a sleeping bag?
Charlie: No, we were gonna put in a blanket and lay on it.
Detective: Mm hmm, ok, is there anything else that you didn’t tell me?
Charlie: Mm mm.
Detective: You sure?
Charlie: Yeah.
Detective: Ok. Do you want me to call your dad and have him come get you?
Charlie: Mm hmm.
Detective: Do you need to see a doctor for anything?
Charlie: No.
Detective: See, he, he might have, he might have diseases and stuff, so if he did anything to you, you need to be checked out by a doctor. So that’s one of the reasons why I need you to tell me if he put anything in your butt, if he put his penis in your butt, or already tried or anything.
Charlie: Mm hmm, yeah, he didn’t
Detective: He didn’t?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Ok, and, did he, ok i’m going to ask you again and if the answers no its no, but I wanna make sure of you need medical attention, or if you need to get tests, or anything, did he ever, like, come in your mouth or anything?
Charlie: No.
Detective: Ok. Did he ever, you ever, put your mouth on his penis, even for a second.
Charlie: Mm mm.
Detective: You sure?
Charlie: Yeah?
Detective: Ok sweety, is there anything else that you need?
Charlie: No.
Detective: You want me to just call your dad and tell him to come get you? 12:05
Charlie: Yeah. I need to use the restroom.
Detective: Ok.
She organizes her belongings
Detective: Let me see if I can find out where it is, ok?
Charlie: Mm hmm.
Detective: Come on, let’s go find you a bathroom, do you need to go really bad?
Charlie: Yeah
Detective: Ok, let’s go 12:36
exit
[NOTE: Dymitri says that there had been many occasions of mutual touching and sexual teasing between the two of them before the night when they were caught at the nude beach, although it is understandable that Charlie would not want to admit it in the interview.]